Insights from the Top | Law Firm Leadership: Betty Temple
David Teece speaks with Betty Temple, the US chair and chief executive officer of Womble Bond Dickinson, a transatlantic law firm with a deep bench of more than a thousand attorneys based in the US and UK. They discuss how artificial intelligence is shaping the future of the legal industry, why face-to-face collaboration matters, and the importance of connecting business and legal perspectives as a trusted advisor to growing clients.
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Transcript
[00:00:41] David Teece: Hello, my name is David Teece, and I'm executive chairman of Berkeley Research Group and a professor at the University of California Berkeley.
In today's episode, I'll speak with Betty Temple, the US chair and chief executive officer of Womble Bond Dickinson, a transatlantic law firm with a deep bench of more than a thousand attorneys based in the US and UK.
We'll discuss Womble's swift expansion, the firm's extensive recruitment and retention strategies, and its hand-in-glove approach to client relationships. Betty, I want to thank you very much for being with us today.
[00:01:19] Betty Temple: Well, thanks for having me.
[00:01:20] DT: Let me begin with a question relating to your history. Not many law firms can trace their history back to 1876. You can. How much of that history is left and are there elements of it that you wish to preserve longer-term, or is it a new company completely now that you have a transatlantic merger?
[00:01:41] BT: Well, I think it's a little bit of both. I would say we have a little bit of 1876 in the sense of our culture, our entrepreneurial spirit and the growth and pursuit of new markets and opportunities, and working very closely with clients. But clearly, we're a completely different firm than we were back then, based on both size and breadth and depth and really having the ability to continue to grow with our clients—whether it's in the US or it's in the world. We experience a lot of the best of both. The culture, the deep commitment to clients—that has sort of been our hallmark for a very, very long time.
[00:02:21] DT: You mentioned the entrepreneurial spirit and the eagerness and willingness and ability to respond to client needs. As I understand it, historically, you have had sort of a middle-market focus, and I'm sure that you’re beyond that. But the middle market is where firms often move the fastest and are the most agile because they are a little more fleet of foot. So, tell me about that. And tell me about your clients and how their needs are evolving in today's world.
[00:02:50] BT: All of our clients are growing, looking for new markets, new opportunities, looking for innovations that'll transform their businesses. And that really describes our law firm as well. We are upper middle market. That's pretty much the space we are really comfortable in. And I think one thing that's really unique about Womble is we know where we can thrive, and we know who we are. We're not trying to be something not connected to our roots. So going back to the roots, you know, we were created and born out of the Southeast. And because of that, because we didn't originate in New York or Chicago or San Francisco, our client base and our perspective have been a little bit different.
And so, I do think we're going to still focus on the middle-market, upper-middle-market clients. We have a lot of Fortune 500 clients. We have Fortune 10 clients. But that middle market is still a very sweet spot, and it's where a lot of innovation and growth is happening. And I think that's a great place for us to play in.
[00:03:59] DT: I see that immediately; not only as in high growth, but also a lot of those companies, almost all of them, are international and growing globally too. So, I know your own background has a significant international and governance and advisory component to it. So, tell us a little bit more about the changing governance environment, both globally and domestically, and how that's impacting your business.
[00:04:24] BT: From a client perspective, I think almost every client we have is either looking for international opportunities, has international opportunities, or desires to have international opportunities. Our clients are very ambitious. And to be able to serve them as a trusted advisor, you really have to understand what that means and how to guide them in ways that are very different than maybe you know, 150 years ago, or even 30 years ago. And when you think about international opportunities and you think about how firms are governed, how companies are governed, the risk profile, the opportunities, the growth profiles, it's really a different way of thinking.
I have worked with public companies my whole career on their growth pursuits. I was a public securities attorney for most of my career, looking and helping clients to grow their business. [I] provided guidance to boards of directors, to committees of boards, and sort of their most important transactions. And that really has translated into the way we at Womble think about our firm and think about our growth, and we think about how we're going to expand and govern our firm. Looking at the opportunities for growth, looking at the risk, you know, proposes more risk. The more ambitious you are, the more innovative you are as a firm. You know, there are risks associated with that. And really balancing those two to position the firm best for the future.
[00:05:47] DT: Your merger with Bond Dickinson must have been timely in that regard because you have a global footprint now. With the UK in the post-Brexit world and the post-pandemic world, tell us a little bit about how the transatlantic dimension of the firm is evolving and needs to evolve to address the opportunities that you see ahead of us now.
[00:06:12] BT: Our combination with Bond Dickinson in the UK really was a game changer for us and a game changer for our attorneys. And I think the way we think now about world events is a little bit different than when we were just Womble Carlyle. And events that affect the world affect our clients everywhere. You look at what's going on, for example, in Ukraine and how it impacted particularly Europe and the UK. You look at economic issues not just in the US that are even more extreme in other places where our clients operate and are expanding. It's very important that we keep our fingers on the pulse. And maybe we didn't have that same global mindset that we did even ten years ago. And I think that makes us a little smarter and a little bit more thoughtful about our strategy for the future.
[00:07:05] DT: You mentioned the war in Ukraine; and now we have sanctions. We have export controls vis-à-vis China. There's a lot for the middle-market firms to worry about, or for all firms to worry about; but the in-house capabilities of middle-market firms are probably not well developed in these areas. So, I'm curious as to whether you're finding opportunities there given your middle-market focus.
[00:07:32] BT: We are. We really see how important it is to have deep expertise and experience in areas that we maybe didn't have before. When you look at—you mentioned trade—in-house teams just typically do not have that depth of expertise and experience. Many times, in-house counsel are dealing with general business issues, general litigation issues. So, when you get into very regulated businesses or regulatory issues, they really do look outside to help fill those gaps. And I think that's where we really come in and can add real value to our clients.
[00:08:11] DT: I can see that. And of course, that requires that you build the capabilities internally as well. I know you've had many talent initiatives of one kind or another. I've read a little bit about your associate apprenticeship models, and you're being quite creative, as I understand it, with respect to secondment and other ways of accessing top talent. So maybe you can talk about how the human resource dimension fits into your global strategy. And how you think you're different and how that's helping you do a better job of serving clients.
[00:08:47] BT: Well, our investment in talent is critical to our success. Just last year, we added over thirty attorneys at the partner and of-counsel level in really key areas to our clients. And areas where we can add depth and breadth to our offerings and where we can add experience. That really gives us a leg up with some of our clients, which, like you mentioned, just don't have that in-house capability.
And so, global business, financial services, IP, energy, and environmental—those areas are very important and have a lot of levels and depth of expertise necessary to guide our clients in some of those sectors. So, we've added partner- and of-counsel-level talent. We've had to fill in some gaps. We had to add bench strength. We had to add experience.
But, in addition, we have a lot of organic talent initiatives. Because we want to make sure that our talent realizes that they have opportunities that I believe are fairly unique for a middle-market-, upper-middle-market-focused firm. And so, we do a lot of different things to create an apprenticeship model. We want attorneys who come to our firm to have the experience that maybe they would've had years ago at a law firm. The mentoring. The training, the investment. The investment, not just in their development of skillsets, but the investment in giving them opportunities to do things in a law firm that they thought they could never do in 2023.
So, an example of that is we have an attorney exchange program. It's called the Transatlantic Lawyers Network, and they're chosen by practice group leaders, and they learn and have opportunities to develop expertise in certain areas that they can then translate into secondments abroad with clients or with our other offices in the UK, and vice versa in the UK and the US.
So, this February we had a program on cross-border M&A. And we had US associates, a small group of UK associates, and a small group of clients who were similarly situated in experience to attend this program that was an intensive training on cross-border M&A. Not just the mechanics, but the cultural issues that businesses face and that law firms face in doing business globally. And after that three-day extensive program, this cohort is getting together and having the opportunity to do—what I would call—an exchange program and spend time in offices in the UK, in the US, including the clients as well, who are now doing some reverse secondments. Instead of our attorneys being seconded into their business, they're actually seconded into our law firm and working with our attorneys here.
So, it's been a really wonderful experience for many of our associates that are interested in this area and thought, “Maybe I'll never have the opportunity to really do cross-border M&A.” When, in fact, they're not only able to do it—they're able to experience it in a different way, whether it's in the UK or with a client, and just have that opportunity not just to learn it, but to experience it and come away, not just with the education, but the actual hands-on experience. So that's what we want to do. We want to really create that opportunity at our firm in different areas, and we're going to expand this program over the next couple years to include many different practice areas in our firm.
[00:12:12] DT: Well, I can see that, and it's quite innovative. To be honest. I haven't heard of these secondment programs going both ways. It's a wonderful way to learn also about your clients’ needs and have soft touch with respect to client relations on a go-forward basis. So, congratulations on all that, and I look forward to monitoring that as it evolves further.
Maybe you can also address some of the post-pandemic issues and back-to-work issues. You've got offices around the world. Have you got a standard policy with respect to those issues and time in the office versus remote, or do you let it evolve according to the needs of the particular offices in the particular regions?
[00:12:56] BT: In the US, we have a hybrid approach. We really want to encourage attorneys to come back to the office. We believe that there's something about those serendipitous meetings at the water cooler or during conference calls where you really do learn by seeing and experiencing. As I indicated, we're really invested in that experiential learning. So, you do miss that if you're never in the office.
That being said, you know, we have a long history of being incredibly flexible with talent. I actually worked for three years when I had two children under the age of two. I worked at home. I did not work in an office, and it kept me in the practice. It really kept me engaged. It was a season of my life where I really needed to be in a different place. And I did that, and I came back, and it really worked.
And so, we are very, very open and very flexible, and we want to meet talent where they are. At the same time, you know, we want intentional efforts to get people together—whether it's in the office, whether it's at a client's, whether it's at an all-attorney retreat at some fun location—because we think that building those relationships is really the glue that keeps us together as a firm.
[00:14:09] DT: I think you're right about that, and I think everybody's discovering the same thing—that we need to be together. One can be eclectic about how, where, and when, but facetime together does matter.
You mentioned along the way the use of innovative technology that may be transforming the legal world. Can you give us a sense of how you are embracing technology and what sort of investments you're making in systems to deliver the kind of quality services that you aspire to deliver?
[00:14:40] BT: We have a long history of investing in technology—and particularly technology that we use with or for our clients to be more efficient. We've also invested in a number of advanced services that we provide to our clients, which are a little bit different than traditional legal services. Some of them actually are not even legal services at all. And we deeply and heavily invest in technology to pursue those opportunities for our clients.
With all the focus on AI [artificial intelligence] and machine learning, I think our big investments will be in that direction as well. We already are partners in a group that focuses in this area, and I expect us to continue to make the right investment that protects our client information, that protects us as a law firm, and allows us to provide services to our clients at the most cost-effective way possible. Because our clients really need to pay for the judgment, the strategy, the decisions. But a lot of the sort of routine, more commoditized work, I do think that AI particularly is going to completely change how that is done in law firms—and probably how it's done in-house at clients as well.
I think it's pretty exciting. I think if I'm an associate coming in, I think I'm going to have—instead of years and years doing due diligence on deals or discovery on litigation—I'm going to get to really develop my skillsets earlier in the areas that are going to propel me toward a true, trusted advisor, a true practitioner that clients turn to for complex problems. And that's really what we want to be.
[00:16:15] DT: You'd mentioned earlier—or I read somewhere—that you think of business advisory as core to what you do, even though, of course, you are lawyers, but it's sort of a business-first approach. Tell me a little bit more about that and how you continue to impart business advisory skills along with legal skills.
[00:16:36] BT: Well, my whole career has been in the transactional corporate and security sides. So, in my years of practice, I discovered that clients really valued me for my judgment that I could provide. First of all, develop deep relationships of trust. Once you develop relationships with trust and you exhibit good judgment, that’s really how they choose a lawyer and how they choose a law firm. Because there are a lot of great firms out there, a lot of smart people that know legal answers, the book answers. But it really comes down to, at the end of the day, making business judgments that have legal consequences.
[00:17:17] DT: Right.
[00:17:19] BT: So that is what distinguishes, I believe, a true, trusted advisor from the others. It's not how you're trained in law school. But at the end of the day, if we can stay focused on what the clients want, that is how we're going to find success as a law firm. And that's what clients want. Again, they don't have legal problems. They have business problems—they just have legal consequences.
[00:17:44] DT: And that brings me back to boards. You've done a lot of work personally with boards as I understand it, and of course, you chair your own board. But that's where the legal and the business comes together in a very forthright way. And so, is governance something that you think Womble is really strong at? And if so, do you have a particular angle to that that may be a little different from some of the other firms?
[00:18:10] BT: Well, I also serve on two boards. I serve on a public company and a private company board, so I have had years of experience, and I've advised boards for years and years. So, I personally have had quite a bit of experience with decision-making at that level. We have a great public securities team in our firm that do a lot of board counseling, but we also have partners and other attorneys across the firm who operate in that same fashion—whether it's to boards, or executives of the companies they work with, or executives in charge of business units—whatever the case may be. And really even, to a certain extent, to general counsel of very large companies.
I think that the more we have a business-like approach, the more we think like our clients, and we see the world the way they see the world and their problems, the better that we're going to be as a firm. And that's something I preach all the time. If we can keep our eye on that and focus our development programs and our training programs on that sort of worldview, I think we're going to be more successful than others.
[00:19:15] DT: Well, I'm completely with you on that. As a business school professor, I've always been in favor of joint programs between business and law because you really need both perspectives to be effective—whether we're talking about as a lawyer or as an executive. And, particularly in today's world with all the increased regulation, and as we discussed earlier, export controls and sanctions, the legal side is becoming increasingly salient.
Let me segue to another hot area that I know you thought a lot about and acted upon, and that's diversity, equity, and inclusion. Maybe you can comment about some of the differences between the different environments in which you operate. UK versus US. Similar in some ways, but probably still some significant differences with respect to the issues you encounter and the solutions that you have. But I'm sure you have a unifying theme to all of that, and I'd love to hear what it is.
[00:20:13] BT: Well, both the US and the UK are deeply committed to DE&I and to advancing our efforts to recruit and retain diverse talent. We operate in many, many respects through our affinity groups jointly. They operate across the pond. They meet together when we're in person; they meet together virtually. We share programs, ideas. They share their groups really wholeheartedly. So, I think in a lot of ways we are very much, very, very, very much connected. The UK has a little bit of a different focus on some areas, but I think really, we're unified. And it's a way that brings us together as a firm. One of the really, really strong points, I think, is that collaboration across all of our groups and our commitment to diversity really does bring us together.
[00:21:06] DT: This has been very interesting. Betty. I like to end these calls with an invitation for you to talk a little bit about your own personal situation, and what you think over the last several years you've learned, and what you hope to achieve on a go-forward basis. Perhaps you can give us some insight into your current thinking.
[00:21:29] BT: Well, I have learned a lot over the last eight years as chair and CEO of Womble, and it's been an incredible journey. I've really enjoyed it. This is a relationship business. Just as it is with our clients, a law firm is about building and maintaining trust with your stakeholders, your partners, your employees, your clients. But you can't make everyone happy all the time. You have to make a lot of hard decisions. You have to do the right thing. And people have to trust that, even if they don't agree with you—that you're doing it in the best interest of the firm. And so, I do think that if we do all that, you really move the firm in the right direction.
That's been something I've learned along the way that I will definitely impart to my successor: how important it is to sort of keep that “North Star” and keep moving the firm forward. Because lawyers are incredibly change adverse, just naturally. They're risk adverse too. When you learn that in law school, you have to kind of untrain that a little bit. And so, building trust, building relationships with clients is super important.
I am really excited about the future of our firm. I think we have incredible opportunity where we're positioned in the marketplace, and I think our potential for growth is enormous. And so, I just want to keep growing and adding our capabilities, our opportunities. Making sure we're looking forward, looking around the corners, adding the right technology where we need, and making sure we stay close to our clients and their business. And I think I'm very much in the right place at the right time.
[00:23:01] DT: Well, Betty, I'm sure our listeners will agree, and we look forward to connecting with you in the future to see how it's all going. So, thank you for your time today, and we'll be talking again in the future.
[00:23:13] BT: Thank you, David.